Sule Lamido is no stranger to Nigerian politics. He was governor of Jigawa State between 2007 and 2015, Minister of Foreign Affairs under former President Olusegun Obasanjo and before then, a member of the House of Representatives during the Second Republic.
In this interview Lamido speaks on the hardship in the country, the economy under Tinubu and court judgements allegedly giving opposition states to APC, among other national issues.
Nigerians are going through hell on account of fuel subsidy removal but your party, PDP, seems to be silent on the living crisis in the country; why is it so? Is it probably because the party lacks original economic thinking on addressing the fuel subsidy lockjam?
I don’t think you are going to get me by trying to provoke me and neither am I willing to answer you on this because we went through a process called election. Our party PDP was in power for 16 years and in those 16 years we were able to restore Nigeria to what it was within the comity of nations, in terms of authority, visibility and even profile. The first thing PDP did was to restore our image outside the country…and work on debt relief.
We were able to get the money, have the country stabilized and fully reconciled after June 12, and then embarked on human development.
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It worked for 16 years and those who were nowhere in 1999 or near Nigeria or near politics came to harvest on our performance, on our efforts, on our achievements, to become visible…and then challenge us.
We were demonized, we were called names, so then in that election, we lost, and thereafter APC came. They vilified us, called us Boko Haram, especially in the North.
So, on what account should you ask me to react? Why should I react? We were in power, we were removed…, now you are asking me about hardship, why are you asking me? Ask those who voted in APC, you know angelic Buhari. Ask the Mallams who brought in Buhari and those who brought in Emilokan, why are you asking me?
But your party contested the 2023 election…
And we lost because people didn’t want us, so ask those who voted for APC, whether they are happy with APC or not, why ask me. I offered myself to serve and you said you did not want me.
But do you have a solution to fuel subsidy?
I was there before, whether I was performing or not, you were aware of that, now you flushed me out and brought in another party with their own political philosophy and programme. So, I should be asking you or maybe your audience or your listeners, whether sacking PDP has paid off. Why are you asking me?
So, in essence, Nigerians should be punished for voting in APC?
You see, I cannot speak for others; I can only speak for my own party, which was rejected by Nigerians, so go and ask those who brought in APC. People like you; your media outfit which was very much anti PDP.
We were neutral
No, you are not. I am telling you because I know what you were from 1999–2007 to 2014. I know what you were.
We were very critical of the Buhari administration
When he failed you. Initially, there was so much celebration when he came in, especially by your paper.
Coming back to the question, do you have a solution to fuel subsidy removal?
I am not in power.
You are in the opposition
Fine, so when the time for election comes then we will tell you what to do. For now, they are implementing what they promised you—agony, pain, hardship, anguish and insecurity. You don’t feel secure, you are poor, your take home pay can’t even buy you a bag of rice, so you are now harvesting what you planted.
Is it the sin probably committed by Nigerians?
How?
Probably by rejecting PDP and you have taken offence?
How do I answer you? What was Nigeria in 1998 before we came on board? What transpired between 1992 and after the annulment of June 12? What about Abacha?
You see, there is something called history, so why can’t we reflect? Why are you thinking only about today? Before today, there was yesterday, so the agony and pain you are going through is something which you knew yesterday.
In 1998, before we came on board, how was Nigeria in terms of internal harmony, internal reconciliation between the North and South, you know after June 12?
There was that bond which makes us a country, it was not there. So, it was PDP which came in 1999 that restored Nigeria. Nigeria reconciled internally first and then redeemed our image outside, made us a country, a force to be reckon with, from 1999 to 2007. Under Obasanjo, I was a minister of foreign affairs.
You seem to have forgotten what we did. There’s a saying in Hausa … like the stomach yesterday, you are full, but by tomorrow it will be screaming again, ‘I want more food’, forgetting that yesterday you fed it.
What was Nigeria between 1992 and 1998, and see what we did between 1998 and 2014. But all that was simply ignored by who? By those who have no clue what is called Nigeria. They rallied around Buhari, calling him our own, our own.
So, what is the benefit of ‘our own’ in power to the North, especially the North West – his own constituency?
Former Vice President Atiku Abubakar said the ruling APC is pushing the country into a one-party state by taking the states that it lost on the ballot through the courts. What is your take on this? And do you think that PDP and other opposition parties will probably be alive and kicking by 2027?
You see, between 1999 – 2014 in terms of followership, in terms of people in key government positions, governors and what have you, it was all PDP and PDP had the character of doing the right thing.
The elections of 2015 were contested by the PDP and they were very, very transparent, very fair and credible and after the election, the president conceded that he lost the election because of the intense propaganda we went through, and they gave it to APC.
Unfortunately, those who were in charge don’t have the character of statesmanship. Their concern and mission were purely ephemeral and there is no better testimony for this than the then chairman of the APC, the former governor of Edo State, Adams Oshiomhole, who said that no matter how dirty you are, no matter how filthy you are, no matter the amount of money you stole, no matter how corrupt you are, if you come into APC, you are forgiven, didn’t he say so?
Look at the appeal in APC, the appeal in APC was corruption, favouritism, nepotism because whatever you are, if you come there, you are safe. You can steal, you can do anything you want because all they know is the numbers and because they have more crooks in the party who are willing to manipulate and impose arbitrarily, that was why they won the election and you see their government.
When they try to win any election and it doesn’t work, they will say ‘okay’ go to tribunal’, and by the time you go there, they are there earlier than you, isn’t it?
If a whole CJN of Nigeria will attend the party organised by G-5 governors and ensure they vote for them, you see it is all about the judiciary.
But the G-5 governors were PDP?
They were fighting for the APC, they were fighting against the PDP candidate, weren’t they? They professed outwardly at the function that they were anti PDP…, then the CJN.
So, what it means is that it is part of their preparation to condition our minds that there is a programme going on and that whoever loses should go to court, but before you get to court, they are already there through the CJN, so what do you expect?
Do you see PDP surviving this beyond 2027?
The PDP is not for the nomenclature PDP, it is for Nigeria and Nigerians, so the whole thing lies on Nigerian voters. Are they getting the right thing? Are they better off right now? Do they feel secure and safe now? I mean their status as human beings, how are they feeling?
There is that thing called bond and brotherhood or sisterhood. These are the kind of characters you call for leadership; those with human empathy.
So when you say PDP, I mean even in APC, there is a PDP, APC, so the nomenclature is immaterial, it is what we profess in terms of our mission for the country, putting the right people in the right places. So, it is not PDP, it is Nigeria.
Before 2014, I had said that in the election coming in 2014 that whoever wins, Nigeria will lose. I said so because some internal arrangements in the party was breached, and the people, kind of, lost confidence in the party based on that breach.
Meanwhile, those in APC were campaigning on hate, division, malice, so it means the two candidates at that time were only running for themselves, Nigeria was left behind. The election in 2014 was between Jonathan and Buhari for their personal ambition and interest, not for the country.
All along, Nigerians believed in us. In whatever we do, we put Nigeria first; let her lead and then pursue your interest from Nigeria.
From 2014, it has been the interest leading and Nigeria following behind. That was why when Buhari won, every Nigerian lost because he was not there for Nigeria.
He lacked the political pedigree, political sagacity, and vision to address the issues of Nigeria. Instead, emotions, sentiments, ethnicity and religion came to play and today in Nigeria, this triangle of ethnicity, religion and the region North-South, Islam-Christianity, Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa and others, are playing out. Tribe, religion and region have been brought to the forefront in Nigeria by the APC. What did Tinubu say? He said Emilokan, it is my turn.
You were very critical of Buhari’s administration; what is your assessment so far of Tinubu’s administration? Will the economy recover under him?
When he said he will continue from where Buhari stopped, what has he done? When you say you want to continue from where Buhari stopped, where do you start from?
From insecurity, poverty or hunger? Tinubu said he will continue from where Buhari stopped, so there is no distinction.
That is why I asked whether the economy will recover under him
Under Tinubu? Are you asking me as an economist or what?