Sometime
in January 2016, you declared yourself as National Chairman of the Peoples
Democratic Party; why?
I
did not declare myself as chairman of the party. I think the record must be put
straight: On May 20, 2015, a (former) National Chairman of our party, Alhaji
Adamu Mu’azu, resigned. And our (PDP) constitution says if a vacancy exists by
resignation or death, the zone that produced that officer should also produce
his successor. And from May to September, I noticed that the party was not
following the path of the constitution. I submitted a letter (of intention)
that I wanted to replace Mu’azu like any other person from the North-East; I
was not given any attention. I mobilised party supporters, leaders in their own
right, former ministers, former senators, former House of Representatives members,
former advisers, all led by a former Senate President, Sen. Ken Nnamani, to
Wadata Plaza, to tell the party that we have two vacancies in the two organs of
our party – the National Working Committee and the Board of Trustees had
chairmanship vacancies. So, in order to abide by the constitution that we gave
ourselves, let us fill these vacancies. The proposition fell on deaf ears. That
was what drove me into seeking legal redress on November 25, 2015. And the
court, in its wisdom, on December 16, 2015, gave a judgment that the
constitution of the party is clear; that either me who was the plaintiff or any
other person from the North-East should be made the national chairman to
replace Muazu within 14 days. Fourteen days elapsed and the party did not do
anything. They filed a motion of stay of execution of the judgment and the
motion was thrown out (by the court). They filed the same motion in the Court
of Appeal; again, it was thrown out. It was clear to me that there was a vacuum
in the leadership of the party; because anything done by the (Uche)
Secondus-led NWC would be null and void, with the court of law having described
him as self-serving and his acting as national chairman was null and void.
Therefore, I had to assume the leadership of the party by taking the extra
step.
Since
that day, the PDP that we knew before was never the same again. That was how
the party’s stakeholders agreed with me that as it was, the PDP had been frozen
to death. Thereafter, they called the governors’ forum meeting and the BoT
meeting and the National Executive Council meeting; it was in the NEC meeting
that a (former Governor of Borno State) Ali Modu Sheriff was elected as the
replacement of Mu’azu. My case was simple: Somebody from the North-East should
step into the shoes of Mu’azu. That is what our constitution says and that’s
what the court said. The constitution and the judgment of the court have now
been complied with, leading to the emergence of Ali Modu Sheriff from the
North-East. It was not a personal struggle with Secondus because his position
as Deputy National Chairman was never in contention. It was his position as
acting chairman that I was against, because the constitution does not permit
him to step into Mu’azu’s shoes. Since the emergence of Sheriff, a lot of
activities have been going on. We have set up committees of reconciliation,
finance, zoning and the congress and convention committees. That is where we
are today.
Do you
think Sheriff has something to offer the PDP?
I
think Sheriff is a grass roots politician; this is a man who won elections into
the Senate two times, and as a governor two times. He knows the nitty-gritty of
the opposition party. He was formerly with the (defunct) All Nigerian Peoples
Party and the (ruling) All Progressives Congress but now in the PDP. Like I
always say, in Nigeria today, we have not concluded the alignment and
re-alignment of political classes and politicking. If you look at the APC
today, apart from President Muhammadu Buhari, (former Governor of Lagos State.)
Bola Tinubu and few of his associates, every other person is a PDP member. The
PDP blood – hot blood – is still running in their veins. The Governor of Kebbi
(Atiku Bagudu) was a PDP senator; the Governor of Katsina (Aminu Masari) was a
PDP Speaker at the House of Representatives; the Governor of Kaduna (Nasir
el-Rufai) was a PDP minister; the Governor of Plateau (Simon Lalong) was a PDP
chairman; the Governor of Sokoto (Aminu Tambuwal) was a PDP Speaker (of the
House of Representatives); the Governor of Benue (Samuel Ortom) was a PDP
minister, PDP national auditor and PDP secretary; I can go on and on to mention
all these people. Maybe towards 2019, that alignment will be concluded.
If
you look at the APC as a party, there are five blocs: the ACN (Action Congress
of Nigeria) of Tinubu; the CPC (Congress for Progressive Change) of Buhari; the
ANPP (All Nigerian Peoples Party) of Ogbonnaya Onu (now Minister of Science and
Technology); the New PDP of Bukola (Saraki, now President of the Senate) and
(Rotimi) Amaechi (now Minister of Transport); the APGA (All Progressives Grand
Alliance) of (Governor Rochas) Okorocha – these are five distinct political
blocs. They have come together but I have not seen them mix because, to date,
we have crisis in the National Assembly, crisis with the budget, and crisis
about the ministers. This is because the blocs have not allowed themselves to
mix. Until we conclude the alignment and re-alignment process of the political
class, people will continue to join a party, not because of its ideological
platform. However, towards 2019, we will have two clearly distinct political
parties. If APC will survive, we will see it; if it will break, we will see it.
They have not become a political party; they are still a political contraption.
They merged and pulled resources together to oust the PDP government at the
centre.
The PDP
ex-Ministers Forum seems not to want Modu Sheriff to lead the party into 2019
elections. What do you think of that?
Politics
is about interests; maybe they have their own personal interest for one of them
to be the party’s (next) chairman. I am saying ‘maybe’ but what the forum
should understand is that the party has a constitution, and in the constitution
there are organs of the party. We have the BoT as an advisory organ; we have
the NEC, which is the second-highest decision-making organ. But the ministers
are not members of the NEC. They do not have any constitutional power to
challenge any decision. As a body, they have persuasive position; they do not
have any constitutional power to effect a change in the party, unlike the
governors’ forum, who are members of the NEC and members of the (national)
caucus. The NEC consists all state (party) chairmen, all governors, (national)
chairman and secretary of BoT. There is nowhere in the constitution that former
ministers are members of the NEC; they should realise that before they start to
shoot themselves in the foot. If you don’t have the constitutional power to
effect any change or your wishes, what you do is by persuasion.
Who are
the people the PDP intends to reconcile with?
Every
member of the PDP who feels aggrieved should be reconciled. There are people
who contested in primary elections, won but were denied tickets to represent
the party. Instead, the tickets were given to other people.
Are you
one of the aggrieved people?
Yes,
I was one of the victims of impunity. There was a primary election, which I
contested to represent my senatorial district. I won that primary election and
a certificate was issued to me; at the end of the day, the then national
chairman did not submit my name. Somebody else’s name was submitted. This kind
of thing (impunity) was done all over the country and many people became
victims of impunity. These are the kinds of people that should be reconciled.
We need these people to rebuild the party. All those involved in the impunity
must now take the back seat. We are not asking them to leave the party. The PDP
needs new managers; new faces that will radiate confidence and trust in the
party, so that we will move ahead.
You said
those who engaged in impunity would have to step aside; does your statement
confirm feelings in some quarters that the party was badly managed under the
last administration?
Everybody
knows the party was badly managed. I gave you instances where those who won
primaries were denied opportunities to represent the party.
Should
ex-President Goodluck Jonathan or Mu’azu be blamed for the problem?
As
a practical politician, the ex-President has nothing to do with the party
administration; and the party should be firm on that. If I were the national
chairman of the party, the president must take instructions from me because it
is my party that gave him the platform to become president; so the president
should listen to the party – and the party should advise the president. It was
the leadership of PDP that mismanaged the party.
Will you
say the impunity was bad enough to justify the exit of former President
Olusegun Obasanjo?
Those
who left the party are in various categories; leaders like Obasanjo, no matter
the situation, ought not to have left the party. Leaders like Obasanjo that the
party gave him the platform to be president twice ought not to have left the
party in the manner he did.
Why?
Because
no matter the situation, he is a leader; no matter the frustration, he is the
leader and must remain the leader that he is. He ought to have stayed on and
continued to proffer advice because this (PDP) was his house. He doesn’t matter
if his advice was not taken by the past administration; no matter the
situation, the truth will always prevail. That is why I am saying that as a
leader, he ought to have remained in the PDP. As a leader from the same party
(with ex-President Jonathan), Obasanjo ought not to have publicly criticised
the party (PDP). PDP is his; he was the president. Have you seen an American
president criticising his own party after leaving office? If Obasanjo wanted to
see the president (Jonathan) 10 times, he had the access. He once said that he
was not bound to accept ‘the adviser’s advice.’ Since he was no longer the
president, it should have dawned on him (that his advice might not be taken).
Obasanjo
stated that after several private efforts had failed, he had to speak out
against his own party and Jonathan because of national interest. What do you
make of that?
It
depends on what you call national interest. If you and I speak, it will not
carry the same effect as when Obasanjo speaks. He ought to know that. Once he
comes out to the public to speak, it is far-reaching – the negative effect will
be far-reaching. And that is why he should always be cautious about what he
says – by the time he comes out to criticise a government, paints the
government in bad light like in the open letter he wrote to former President
Goodluck Jonathan. If I were him, I wouldn’t have done that because Jonathan
joined issues with him. Those things were not expected of our leaders. By that,
the PDP was completely brought down. As a former president, there are certain
things one must not say in the public. The PDP made its mistakes but leaders of
a party must know that certain information shouldn’t be divulged to the public.
Is it true
PDP has begun shopping for 2019 presidential candidate in the APC?
Let
me tell you one thing: you should not put the cart before the horse. Unless and
until the PDP is built, if you are made a presidential candidate and the party
is weak, can you win the election? If anyone aspires to be a presidential
candidate or wants to run for any political office on the PDP platform, the
most important thing is to build the party; let the party be rebuilt and
revived. We want the party to stand strong to win elections either at council
level or at the national level. It is then that the interest of who becomes
president comes in.
Saraki,
Tambuwal and Speaker of the House of Representatives, Yakubu Dogara, as well as
other prominent ex-PDP members in the APC, are among the so-called aggrieved
people that left PDP. Is your party planning to bring back these men to its
fold too?
I
don’t believe those ones are aggrieved. Those ones were fired by their
ambitions. There are categories of aggrieved persons in the PDP. They did not
contest in primaries and win and the party tickets were not given to them. Most
of the leaders felt aggrieved because Goodluck Jonathan wanted to stand for
election in 2011. After (ex-President Umaru) Yar’Adua passed on, some (party
leaders) did not want Jonathan to succeed him in the next election, saying
somebody from the North should stand for that election. You cannot stop the man
(Jonathan) from standing for election because he has the constitutional right
(to do so). On the zoning formula issue, the arrangement was clear and the
death of a president was not foreseen. The zoning formula was effective; it was
ongoing and successful until an intervening circumstance happened – force majeure, an act of God. The constitution is very
clear on that; when a president dies, the vice-president will succeed him; he
becomes the substantive president and he appoints another vice-president from a
different zone. The zoning formula would have been broken if, for example, when
Yar’Adua passed on and Jonathan became president and chose a vice-president
from the South. Then, one can say the zoning formula has been broken.
What about
the allegation that Jonathan signed one-term pact?
I
was the political adviser of ex-President Jonathan. I had searched all the
documents to see the pact signed by Jonathan; I did not see anything like that.
I asked Jonathan himself, he said there was no pact signed by him. I asked
further if there was any verbal agreement, he said there was none. But if
somebody on his behalf went and committed him, he (Jonathan) cannot be held
accountable for that.
Is there
any effort to get people like Saraki and Tambuwal back to the PDP?
The
position of the PDP today is that we must go shopping in calm, still and
troubled waters. So, all over the country, the PDP must go shopping – whether
in the APC camp, the APGA camp or Labour Party camp. The PDP is going to shop in
all these camps. I believe we will get some good catches (politicians).
Saraki is
alleged to be enjoying the backing of the PDP in the Senate; is this part of
the shopping strategy ahead of 2019 presidential election?
Like
I told you, if you juxtapose my argument with what is happening at the National
Assembly, most of the people (APC senators) have ‘hot’ PDP blood flowing in
their veins; wherever they are, they are PDP (members). We have come a long way
(with these people) since 1998; because of 2015 elections and they went to APC
does not make them APC (members). We are (all) still PDP; we talk – we discuss;
although, we may have our little differences. The issue is: APC (leaders) never
liked Saraki to become the Senate President, notwithstanding the fact that he
came to the Senate on the platform of the APC and contributed a lot to the APC
winning (the 2015 general elections). But he was not part of them and he ought
to have known that.
Will you
advise him to defect and join his PDP colleagues in the Senate?
He
should advise himself. But if I were him, I wouldn’t have allowed the crisis to
reach the current level. I’d have stepped aside and face the trial (at the Code
of Conduct Tribunal for alleged false assets declaration). I know Nigerians are
watching if the trial is political persecution or legal persecution. As a
Senate President, I should put aside my individual ego. I don’t want to bring
the reputation of the institution into disrepute; let me remove myself from the
institution of the Senate, which is sacrosanct. The fact that someone else
becomes the senate president isn’t a do-or-die affair. Saraki should have
removed himself from the position of Senate President by resigning right from
day one. What is going on is shameful; the government of APC has engaged in
separation of government rather than separation of power. It is sad to see the
head of the legislative arm of government facing a criminal charge. In
other climes, anybody who is facing such issues will just resign from that
position of leadership.
Governor
Ayodele Fayose of Ekiti State has described Buhari has a dictator in a
democratic government. What do you think?
Fayose
has made his own assessment of the President and he has told Nigerians as a
whole what he thinks of the APC and President Buhari’s government. He’s a
leader in his own right and he’s a governor of the PDP; he has a right to
criticise the government and people have a right to criticise him, like he is
being criticised over his governance in the state (Ekiti). That is the beauty
of democracy. His criticisms are good for the APC and Nigerians. We need (more
of) this type of vibrant criticisms for the government to perform.
In your
assessment of Buhari, will you say he is acting with dictatorial tendencies?
Even
if Buhari is acting with a dictatorial tendency, it is in his blood; he spent
the better part of his life in the military. Like Obasanjo, when he was
president, there were dictatorial tendencies in him. So, Nigerians must accept
to live with them. If you have made a mistake by electing a military president,
then, you must learn how to enjoy him. The president should have political
advisers who will continue to advise him on democratic principles and on the
constitutionality of his actions or inactions. Though he is the President, he
doesn’t have the reservoir of knowledge on democratic principles or the
constitution. That is why he needs advisers that can look him in the face and
tell him the best way to go about things. Tambuwal emerged as Speaker of the
House of Representatives against PDP’s wish in 2011 but the PDP managed him
till the end.
If Buhari
is considered to be dictatorial, Jonathan was severely criticised as being too
soft and effective, hence his alleged failure in fighting corruption…
You
have just said now that this man (Buhari) has dictatorial tendencies. The
executive arm of government has no hand in prescribing judgment; it is to
investigate, arrest and arraign. This was properly done by the Goodluck
Jonathan administration in accordance with the constitution. Some people faced
trials for the (fuel) subsidy scam during his tenure; they were investigated
and arraigned before the court.
But nobody
was punished under the administration for crime…
I
don’t believe that the Goodluck Jonathan we had was this weak like Nigerians
will like to say. This a man who believes in the constitutionality of every
action; who believes in robust consultation in whatever he does because if we
run counter to the laws of the land, anarchy will set in – that is what the man
was trying to avoid.
The
handling of the leader of Independent Poeples of Biafra, Nnamdi Kanu and Fulani
herdsmen by the Buhari-led administration is considered by many as ineffective.
What else do you think the Federal Government can do to resolve these issues?
Like
I said, the president needs political advisers who can look at him in the face
and advise him. It is not everything that is resolved legally or militarily. As
a political adviser, I’ll invite (Alex) Ekwueme, Ike Nwachukwu, (Ralph)
Nwazurike and other leaders in the South-East region and have a meeting with
them: ‘Look, do you know what this young man is doing? Do you know we have
fought a civil war in this country and how much it cost us in terms of life and
properties? What we as leaders see this young man will never see it. Are you
aware of what he is doing? Please, I will hand him over to you to lecture him
on the need for unity in this country.’ That is political solution. And before
he (Buhari) knows it, if this process is put on ground, the issue will in no
time be resolved. Yar’Adua came in when the Niger Delta militancy was at its
peak; production of crude oil was less than 500, 000 barrels per day instead of
two million. What did Yar’Adua do? He called the leaders and they sat down with
the militants; that was the beginning of the amnesty. So, we need certain
political solutions to solve certain issues, not military.
Does the
current insurgency by Boko Haram in the North-East require a political solution
too?
The
issue of Boko Haram is different from that of the Niger Delta militancy and the
IPOB because the insurgents have no leader you can deal with. Some people have
used this situation to scam government. I think the government should mobilise
the northerners to bring them on board as it fights the insurgents.
Source:Sunday
Punch
Tags
Politics