Fashola Speaks On His Successor,Achievements And Plans

The tenure of Lagos State Governor, Babatunde Fashola, has been a time of uncommon transformation for the metropolis. As he enters the final lap of his administration, the governor spoke with selected journalists among on his targets for the time left and other national political issues of the moment.

Lagos has been experiencing some urban renewal. Is this renewal an attempt at taking Lagos back to some forgotten development plan, or a haphazard work in progress?

If you follow our communication on policy statement closely, you will notice that I said from the beginning of my tenure that this was going to be a government of method. That we are going to be methodical in things that we will embark upon. Everything that we have done so far had been based on very rigorous examination of what the problems are, what the choices of solutions are and how to prioritise in order to make them sustainable. One of the first thing we did after assumption of office was to conduct a trip round the state; I commissioned a team based on this to go and ask the citizens and residents around the state to specifically tell the governor, ‘what do you want him to do for you?’

That was the beginning of our local government tour. The results that came showed us that there were six main items; roads, drainages, schools, health, jobs and power. But we wanted to validate that and we went for Town Hall meetings in every local government. And while those things resonated across, they resonated differently. In some local governments, they wanted their roads first. In others, they prefer schools. In some places, their drainages were their main concern. Such were the disparities in priorities. This formed the basis of our first full year budget in office (2008 budget). And we have kept faith with this approach.

Indeed, from each tour after we came back, it was to give instructions to each ministry or department. When we came back from those tours, we went straight into an executive meeting everyday, giving out assignments as required; and we have kept track.

The second point was that of regional plan. I think the last regional plan for the state was done around 1991 or so. So, we decided to plan the state into eight towns. We developed a new regional plan.

These towns are Badagry, Ikorodu, Epe, Lagos Mainland (which covers part of Oshodi, all through to Orile, to National Theater and Iddo), Ikoyi, Victoria Island, Lekki and Ikeja; and to link them up by transport infrastructures.

Again, we did an audit of the available water supply. And we saw that we had about roughly 45 or 48 percent water supply and we developed a plan; a short, medium and long term plan to provide water for the growing population that we were anticipating. The short-term plan was to do 2million gallons per day, with facilities in 15 locations. I have commissioned about nine of them. And along with that short term plan was to get the Iju water works to run at its full capacity because it was running about 35 percent of its installed capacity because of power outages. This led to the first IGP for Iju water works; the Akute IGP now running at about 90 percent. But it doesn’t solve the problem. Some of these facilities have aged; Iju was built around 1900. That’s why you will see we are laying new pipes through Eko Bridge. If you drive through there, you will notice some work going on near the bridge; that’s what is going on.

Essentially, we have almost completed the short-term plan. The medium term plan is to build bigger water works. Instead of two million, we are going on bigger scale. Oto-Ikosi is completed now and being tested. That is four million gallons to feed part of Epe and support Ikorodu. We have Odo-mola, which is 25 million gallons. We are in negotiation with private investors who want to build, run it and supply water. If we achieve that, it means that we will cut off part of Lekki and others in the environ and feed them from that area so that what is coming from Iju, that is already serving Yaba, Lagos Island and Ikoyi gain will fuller pressure and fuller content. There is also the Adiyan phase II, which is 70 million gallons a day. We have already started constructing this from the budget. We will finish that in 2016. It is already financed and construction is going on as I speak. It will be for the new governor to merely come and switch it on. That will help us supply Alimosho and Agege, who are actually close to the water source (Iju) but who don’t benefit from it because the Europeans, who built it, didn’t not include in the benefit of that water.

In Badagry, we want to it stand alone. Ishashi is four million gallons. And we are upgrading Ishashi as I speak; it is almost completed too to 12 million gallons a day.

The same thing with water treatment and sewage. The capacity was barely 10 percent. We drew up a 10-year plan. And that is why we now have a Lagos State Water Regulatory Commission, which will regulate the use of clean water and recycling of used water. These plans are in place and wherever we stop implementing them, we turn it over to the next government. It will be easier to for the new government to continue than to stop; the details are already articulated.

We went into Yaba for massive rehabilitation of what was once a prime middle class community. Three roads were commissioned for construction and we finished substantially 80 percent of the works there. We are regenerating Apapa as well. Some of old roads in Victoria Island are being constructed. The same type of construction is going on in Alimosho. We have finished LASU-Iba Road. It is about 20 kilometers and four-lane, as well as Governor’s Road and a couple of other roads. This time last year, we handed over 11 new roads in Alimosho.

You will also notice that in all this, we have consciously kept one contractor; almost like a resident contractor. Once you finished, we move you to the next phase. In Ikorodu, for example, the resident contractors are two; the Chinese and Arab Contractors. The Chinese are doing the main road and the Arab Contractors are doing the inner ones.

The Ibeshe Road, which we have just finished, the Awolowo Way, which is going on and about 10 smaller roads are going on in Ikorodu under construction by various local contractors. In Mile 12 and in Agiliti, there is a new bridge and about seven new roads that will finish in about June. In Ijegun-Isheri, you have Hi-Tec there, constructing the bridge to link the two communities together.

So, there is a conscious effort to be methodical so that, instead of demobilizing one contractor and bringing another one, we have a network of roads and we tackle them one after the other.

As you wind down your tenure are there any other development plans in the offing? How do you react to allegations that some of your projects are elitist in nature?

If it is the elite who live in Mile 12, in Agiliti, then I am happy to serve them. If it is the elite who live in Ajegunle, where we handed over a new road last week, I am happy to serve to them. Also, if it is the elites who live in Mushin, where we handed over 16 roads, then I am happy to serve them. If it is the elite who live in Ikeja, where we just finished Kodeso and Medical Roads, it is my pleasure to serve them; they are taxpayers too.

The biggest project that we are undertaking, the transport project… if you look at from Mile 12 through the Ikorodu Road, if it is the elite who live in this 17 kilometer road expansion, I am happy to serve them. If you go from Orile right through to Alaba, Mile 2 we are doing the train station and if that also is for the elites who live there, I should be so delighted to serve them. These are places where no activity of any sustainable attention had been paid. Over the years, we have not really had this long period of government to really sit down, develop a plan and run with it. Yes, we haven’t served everybody and we can pretend we will be able to serve everybody. But the fact that an asset is built in a community where you live doesn’t mean that it belongs to you. And the choices that we have always made, given our limited resources, is ‘where is the most impactful area of need?’

People have now forgotten what the areas around Stadium, Barracks and Alaka used to look like. There are seven kilometers of drainage submerged under that road today. Because when we started the BRT system, that is where the buses used to get trapped. It occurred to us then that instead of going to do residential roads, ‘why don’t we fix roads that road that takes people to places of their daily bread?’

Roughly about six million commuters move around there daily. That’s one of the busiest roads. Then we went to open up Agege Motor Road and Oshodi to free traffic that used to be a daily nightmare to people. I remember that people at the Airport Tollgate were not happy with us because our effort impacted negatively on their revenue. Then, people were paying to by avoid that gridlock at Oshodi only to come back to Agege Motor Road. We succeeded in putting that money back in their pockets. Most of this people are ordinary citizens. This debate (on elitism or otherwise) will never go away. In any case, I am proud to be serving somebody. The pain on the other side is that today, we don’t have electricity, but does it really matter who first got it? If some people start to get it, the rest of us can hope it will soon get to us. I am proud to have provided a ladder of opportunity for people to step onto. Of course, you will have to draw a very clear line between criticism and cynicism. And of course, we don’t need unanimity of approval, because there will never be.

Regarding the sustainability of some of your projects how concerned are you about who your successor will be? Have you now transmuted to a political godfather enough to say, for sustainability, you prefer Mr. A or Mrs. B as successor?

The answer to that is to continue to insist that a government that is run around institutions is the most sustainable form of government. And we must look, therefore, to a time when (we may not have the desired person in office). Lagos State has been very lucky so far to have a lot of action governors. But how much we can continue to build on luck is another thing. Up to my immediate predecessor in office, they have all been very wonderful people in office. I think what we need is to move to action government, where whatever happens the system will run. That is why we are doing a lot of human capacity development, training public servants; part of the reasons behind our last retreat that had become very frequent. We have also yielded a lot of independence to parastatals so that we can hold people responsible for implementation. All too often, what we have seen over many years in the ministries is that they have taken on too much. There is a conflict of time management, resource allocation and efficiency between attempt to implement and attempt to formulate policy.

When ministries focus on policy formulation and articulation and allow parastatals to implement, you have a more efficient public service. Examples are already there. For example, the Ministry of Environment is our policy formulator in waste management, whether it is solid or liquid or polluted airwaves. Agencies like LASEMA is dealing with air and liquid waste and LAWMA is dealing with solid waste. So, if there is particular problem, the commissioner knows who to call. We are also seeing the same thing in the transportation sector; LAMATA is dealing with the public through the BRT system and coordinating the rail. The Lagos State Water Authority is running the water system, building the jetties and developing the regulations for the ferries. The same thing is in the Ministry of Works. The ministry now takes over the segmented maintenance of roads, through Public Works Corporation. Last year alone they did more than 900 roads — construction and rehabilitations. And you see them at nights patching roads after and before the rains. There is now a separate department in charge of traffic lights. You are seeing traffic lights; it is not by accident. So, if a traffic light fails, the commissioner knows who is the head of that department. We are creating specialization in an organic way that cascades to the pyramid of the organogram.

So, whoever becomes the next governor, all he needs to do is to take those people’s budget, give them the money they need; because they already know what to do.

What happens if the passion is lacking?

Well, I used to ask myself what role a leader can play. And I sued to believe that it was the leader and his team; and I still do. But I examine a situation that may not be very relevant to our situation. I look at a football team, which won the English Premier League just last year has become a shadow of itself. It is a management and leadership case study. Beyond the 90 minutes, what went wrong? Our management schools could look as this type of scenario. Did the coach have enough time? Did he resume on time? Was it wise to have cleared all the staff? These are leadership and management issues for me in order to see and live in a theory that it is the leader and his team, rather than the leader alone. Challenges are the building blocks for groundbreaking development. A life without challenges cannot just hold.

There are some new FERMA-trainees seen around the state. How much do you know about this development?

Honestly, I really don’t know a thing about it. But when contacted, the Minister for Works said it did not have his approval. The parastatal is under the Ministry of Works, but the question to ask is what is going on? Where is the money for this particular exercise coming from? If they are recruiting, what is the purpose? If they want to police federal highways, what is now the role of the FRSC? Is it a task force such as that has contemplated within the law? Have they appropriated funding for it? Because you can’t have agency in a constitutional democracy without having appropriation for them in the budget. Or are you funding them with slush fund? Where is the money coming from? Is it SURE-P money, meant for the development of Lagos State that is being used to do this? These are some of the questions. And again, you ask yourself, ‘what is the need for such a task force?’ There are about 10,000 roads in the state, out of which 6000 belong to the State Government. A little over 3000 belong to the local government. Less than 120 belong to the Federal Government, so what do you need such a large army for, unless there are some ulterior motives? I hope we are not going back to the days of machetes, during 2005 and 2006.

People choose the way they end up by choosing the way they begin. If the resort is violence, they have served us notice; they have served Lagosians notice. For me, if that is the way to repay Lagosians for the votes they receive here, we will review our strategies.

Some critics of your party say its strategy appears only to revolve around defections into the All Progressives Congress. They say there’s hardly any difference between it and the ruling Peoples Democratic Party (PDP). Why would one want to cast his or her vote for the APC instead of the PDP?

First of all, we have demonstrated very, very clearly. Even our worst critics cannot sustain any argument about the fact that in the state that we have been entrusted, we have added value; visible and

demonstrable value.

Fortunately, in most of those states: Edo, Ekiti, Ogun, Osun and Oyo, the electorates have had the misfortune to have been governed by the PDP-led governments. The choice is now clearer to them. If you take Ogun State, for example, where in less than two years bridges have been built. If you take Oyo as another example, the bad stories about the eyesores have disappeared. They now even have a bridge, which is the first in about 34 years. So, the electorates have seen both sides of the coin now and they are wiser. This can only suggest to you that it is a model that is working, by peer review, by peer influence and by healthy competition among the governors to succeed; that can only be good for the states.

Now, if you look at the other sides that decided to join us, you cannot dismiss their achievement by a wave of the hand; even under PDP. But they have seen clearly that development cannot continue with sudden disappearance of revenues while they are expected to keep a conspiratorial silence and continue benefitting. In terms of public accountability, we bring that to the table.

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, like-minds are calling unto each other about the need for the development of the country. In any political arena, people are complaining that things are not moving in the country, where the national government has 52 percent of the resources. Even with the very best effort of the 36 states and over 700 local governments, if they perform at a 100 percent, in terms of risk analysis and risk allotment if they keep less than 50 percent of resources, their 100 percent is still not a pass mark. But in spite of these complaints, people still feel that nobody can defeat this behemoth. ‘So, we will either not vote or we will vote for them because we know that they will not lose.’ And if you transfer that mentality and using football as a tool of analysis: how many people do you know who support football clubs going into relegation? Everybody supports either Barcelona, Real Madrid or Manchester United because these are clubs with real chances of winning trophies. Human beings naturally have disposition for success. And that is what APC also brings to the table for Nigerians — to give them a real choice.

Ultimately, it is people of Nigeria who will get the opportunity to be in absolute control of their destiny and then whip governments into line. Because in the cases where you have thin margins between parliamentary representation, state representations, one bad choice and you are out because the other party stands a fair chance to win the election. Of course, there will be smaller parties. Parties can be more definitive when coalitions are necessary as we saw in Britain, where Liberal Democrats and the Conservative partnered to kick Labour out; and even they have started fighting. None of the disagreements that you have also seen here is peculiar to us. There are appointments Obama cannot make today. You may quarrel with the morality of it, but the legitimacy of it is unquestionable. That is what lies at the heart of the doctrine of separation of powers and checks and balances. And the position our party has taken is a contingent position. You cannot hide behind a finger and say you don’t know what is going on in Rivers State. If you don’t, it must be in your enlightened best interest to know. Security of life and property is the primary reason why government exists. And even if there is no legal duty, I think there is moral duty.

As things continue to unfold, you will see clearly that we are a party of method and of process and in the fullest of time we will unveil to you in a very clear detail what we are about. But again, you cannot have a party without people, and we are following our plan. Our plan was to register the party, against all the odds, against all the five or six APCs, we achieved what we wanted to do, against history that no merger has ever been concluded. Never! Because, the party in power will do anything to scuttle it, they will throw cats amongst pigeons, we saw the cats amongst us and like very clever and well intentioned pigeons looking for peace to rescue Nigeria, we flew up above them and made our meeting and we emerged. It is a defining event in the political history of Nigeria. Having finished that, we went into contact and mobilization, we are now going into membership registration which entails producing the management of the party and when that is done, we will tell you Nigerians why we want to be members of the APC.

I read about you defending your party’s directive to its members in the National Assembly to block executive bills. You have also done so here. In my view, I think it is pre-mature because your party doesn’t have that majority in both houses. Another point is where is the constructive engagement?

You have rushed to judgement. I don’t think that we should be repulsed by the idea, it hasn’t happened, but we are saying, if it certain things do not happen as they relate to law and order, we will come to a conclusion that this is a pre-meditated design to use executive power and if there is no communication, we will bring you to the table and one of the ways to do so is by exercising our own powers; I have always said that the virtue of power is the restraint in exercising it, but it is sometimes important to remind people that that power exist. When the party was meeting and setting up its members to withdraw operations from the executive; they were withdrawing cooperation from the executive.

If you know the way legislative business goes, you can’t have clear lines in parliament and that is why even with extreme position of the Tea Party, there were members within the Republican party who were crossing over to the democrats to talk to them saying, ‘you now go and tell the president that he can’t say he wouldn’t negotiate, he has to come to the table. It is also for our leadership to say that lets come together and deliberate on our issues. I think that because our democracy is just about 14 years, it is going to throw up many learning curves, it needs a lot of maturity for one to realise how much power one has and to know that you can’t act on your own; for me, its learning rather than getting angry; what have they done in other jurisdictions where this happened? Therefore, we must see the glass as half full all the time, we don’t want the nation to collapse because

we want to win and we expect that we will win. We are beginning to witness discontent on defection from APC, how is

the party handling disagreements?

The more the Nigerian public gets involved in politics and understand politics for what it is the better; it is about interests and human beings and everybody wants something, even in your homes your children want something, there is a lot of politics in your homes and we all pretend we are not politicians. There are conflicts defined by interests that would be resolved. That is high-wire politics going on. Let’s just decompose these things and understand them, it is happening on the macro to the micro, it is local, international and global.

On taxes in Lagos… flowing from the principle of federalism which you have always preached, will it be okay if the money you get from Alimosho with the highest population is spent almost exclusively in Alimosho?

I think the first thing to do is to explain that there are different sources of revenues. Taking advertising for instance, it is income that comes to the local government under the management of LASAA, which is a company statutorily created, owned by the state and local government; because the local government has

responsibility for advertising which takes place on land managed by the state, so there is a joint business. When the income is distributed at the end of the year, there is a derivation principle that goes to the local government. In terms of how resources are allocated, the needs across the state are not the same; in some places all you need to do is patch a road while in others you have to start from the beginning. Every time you construct a road, people take positions, capital appreciation follows road construction and the way to go is to ask where the taxes for roads like the LASU- Iba and Ijegun come from. There was a time when the kind of development and construction in Alimosho didn’t go on and so at the end of the day, it’s not easy to isolate and say this is what came from here, the only way we do that kind of isolation is if we collect capital development levies for land sold in any estate, we

use the money from that estate to build its roads, drainages and infrastructure as far as it can go, it doesn’t go a lot but it helps.

That is why we have scheme accounts; Lekki phase one has a scheme account. When the residents pay, they money goes back to them, after UACPDC bought 1004 estate and paid their capital development levy, we used it to start phase two of Adetokunbo Ademola and after that, where were they going to pass? But that did not fund the road to completion of the Lekki -Epe expressway.

The point is that all the revenues go to the consolidated revenues of the state and what we do is a budget based on input and on development plan.

Many of us are worried about the place of the local governments in your development plans. Where I live there is absolutely no impact from that level of government at all…

No, they may not have served your personal needs at the moment and that will not be good to generalise, because you don’t feel the impact, those who could see appreciate it. Local governments are driving primary healthcare and primary education, which are the foundation of development of the most important resources, the human resources-making him or her health and giving him or her skills.

If we do not develop human beings, where would the next generation of engineers come from? You can see that we are yet to develop certain parts of Lagos. People are building at the pace higher than we are able to respond and that is not our fault or yours.

Now, it’s the understanding that we seek because how fast can we get across to you is function of time. Even if we have all the funds available, you have a certain number of blocks you could lay in a certain day and there is no science that could change that. You have certain hours to allow the cement to set. The only thing you can do to increase it is to work three shifts but you can’t run away from that length of hours.

What will be the rule is the planning. We are not planning 100 rooms now but we are planning 400 rooms at once across all the local government. So, at incremental level, the work is progressing.

For instance, in 2007, how many streets did you see with streetlight at night? But we started with first road, Awolowo road. There were streetlights but it wasn’t working. What happened? It was one vulcanizer at TBS, who was heating tyre and melted the cable in one of the poles and that affected light. We fixed it and switched on. We started putting diesel and we drove on that road and it looked like our small London. We continued like that and last year alone, we had over 50 roads with streetlights because there is an incremental capacity. We are making poles in Lagos and this year we are looking at doing another 100 roads.

Alimosho had about 11 roads lit up last year. And around Agege motor road, we lit up the road and traders can now sell till night and that means, doubling their income. These are the elites that I’m serving.

In Shomolu, they used to stop selling their akara and dodo by 6pm because of fear of insecurity. We gave them light and today, they sell into the night. Obalende is back.

Your Commissioner for Budget and Planning gave the debt profile at N120 billion, but I’m aware that Lagos is the only state that pays salary from IGR. How sustainable is this system?

Simple, there are few things to understand. There are upper limits of debt profiles by global standards, in relation to a certain percentage of the GDP. We are not near that threshold anywhere. Secondly, what types of debt profile is it, is it for recurrent expenditure or capital? It is for capital. If in less than two years to go, I went to the stock market to raise N85billion and it was fully subscribed and you know bankers do not want to lose money. They know what is coming from that and they keyed in. with these projects people earn income and because they earn income, they pay taxes. We are simply moving the money round. In 1999, when my predecessor took over we were working with N14 billion IGR and we are now having a budget of almost half a trillion naira and how do you want us to finance that? Is it the money under the pillow? You can’t build a city like that. We want rail and all that, you don’t do it waiting for people to bring kobo kobo. For instance, the track Europeans built are still there. It is a 100-year asset. You have to finance it by debt and it will pay off. During Tinubu’s time, when he drew that N15 billion out of N25 billion bond they said he had mortgaged Lagos. All the press where reporting and saying that we are going to pay that for 50 years but do you know what? I paid that debt in my first year in the office. The first bond that we took is maturing this year. It is a N50 billion bond. We have N90 billion in trustees account to pay off N50billion. If we keep waiting until the money gathers together, you can’t begin to tell me that there is no road to your house. Where am I supposed to build them? The road that Asiwaju built with N15 billion, I can’t touch again with the same amount of money. The dollar was trading at less than one to a naira, but it is almost doubled. When I assumed office, the dollar was at $1 to N112 and we were borrowing at 10 per cent. Now you are lucky to get at 17 per cent. Dollar is now $1 to over N170. Those are the realities and we must salute our economic team for the investment they have been able to achieve.

If not for that, would you have LASU-Iba road, that rail, or make Ikorodu road motorable today; Badagry expressway and others? The money we are spending on Ikorodu road is a loan. It’s a long-term loan. Take the money now and pay back later as long as the people continue to pay their taxes and financial capacity continues.

We are saying that America is a very good place with skyscrapers, the best hospitals in the world and best streets. Why do you think they owe everywhere? $16 trillion debt that is what they use to pay for it. They are financing their prosperity. They have over 350 million population, owing the world $16 trillion. We are about 20 million and we are talking about N400 billion. That is our budget for one year, so if we close our eyes, we will pay that debt.

Was your visit to Edo State solely to endorse the presidential ambition of Governor Adams Oshiomhole?

Really, our country needs development and knowing Edo well, with the things I saw there, I think it’s a development that should come on board every state if that experience is brought to a larger theater of expression. I’m in support of everybody, who has worked so that we will not come up to say we will not have any electricity because we do not have gas. That gas is not gotten from one alien country, it’s seated underneath us. It baffles me each time thing I hear we have money, but we are looking for the whereabouts of 12bn dollars. Let us even say for the sake of argument, why couldn’t that money be spent on pipelines to pump fuel over the country or even repair the pipelines?

The issue is, after many years that the country has been extracting crude oil, are the pipes not due for change? I’m changing water pipes on the bridge. So we spent huge sums on power project yet there is no solution. And I begin to wonder what the United Arab Emirate spent in their total power energy? They powered the desert. How much more can it cost? So it was in that contest that I said that I will support any one who is doing well and who has done well, so that such development will come across on board.

With the strong push for power shift, will northerners in your party support him?

I can’t speak for a group. That is your fear. I have a stake. At the end, you can’t speak for a group. They decide on what to be done. For now we are still early in our party programme discuss issues of candidates. Until we empanel the organs of party and officers, that question will be addressed in the course of time.

There is an issue with the Ajao Estate Bridge which now empties traffic into Ajao Estate; this implies heavy traffic from busy roads

pouring into residential areas without creating another channel for it…

One thing I have learnt from this job is the difficulty with implementing change. And when people resist change, it’s not because they don’t like what you offer, but sometimes, they do not appreciate it. And more importantly, they have secured a vested interest in the existing order. And you need to convince them that what is on the other side is better than what they have on the other side. Now what does Ajao Estate do for those of you who live there? You are cut-off from the town. It didn’t evolve with plan, like other areas, but we are re-planning all of them now. It was built, as you like. You lock yourself up with gates for security. We are re-planning them within the big master plan. We were to build one bridge, but we decided to do two bridges in order to avoid demolitions and we are spending more. And by that, the bridges have reduced journey for commuters by 75 per cent, the stress, cost, life style, tears and wears of the vehicles by 75 per cent. Every problem solved is not a destination; it is a milestone to move to another level. There are streets that we have in our procurement plan for this year. The same way we created Okota bridge and it created another problem because it was a single lane, but nobody told us that the work had not ended. We decided to open Ago road and demolished some houses, shops and walls, but that met with litigation and we stopped. What we need is patience. If this work will finish, Alhaji Jakande would have finished it. We have a plan and if you want to know how many roads more are left and the ones done, we will show you. It’s all about sustainability.

Information Minister, Labaran Maku, recently said that at all levels no government has done what the Jonathan administration had done. But here you are reeling out achievements. How does that make you feel, compared to the assertion that they have done the best?

All I can say is that I hope the best of Nigeria is really further ahead. I don’t want to be the best governor of Lagos. I want better governors to come after me. I think that it’s a leadership problem. When these kinds of statements are made, you must contextualize them into whether or not we really have prepared ourselves for the kind of responsibilities that we have. Would there have been a Nigeria if those who fought the war didn’t sacrifice? So, for somebody to come after that to say, we are the best. That was governance. Keeping the peace and unity of this country, people lost their lives. They served. How do you dishonour their memory and service by saying nobody has done what you have done? I have never had any government that wants to progress say those kinds of things. There must be a place for your predecessors. It’s ladder and a house built on so many blocks of blood, sweat and tears. And whether you like it or not, you will hand over the baton. How would you feel after that, when somebody says you haven’t done anything? Let’s look at power. Did they pass the legislation? They are concluding the process. There is pension reform today. Did they pass the legislation? It’s a process of thinking and doing sometimes. As I told people, Thabo Mbeki hosted the World Cup, was he the one who bid for it? What is the value they have added to the GSM today? There are more drop calls now than when the system started. Were they the ones who did it? It was a government that licensed private TV otherwise all of us would be locked on to NTA today and you won’t be here because there would only have been Daily Times. That’s the incremental contributions of your predecessors. So, how are they supposed to feel? And you want to build a nation? You’re provoking everybody? I think there can be better tactics to underscore your development. We can’t show that we are good by showing that everybody is bad. Unfortunately, it’s a strategy that has also worked in some states, but I have always said, look, you must acknowledge what your predecessors have done. They may not have done as much as you have done. They may have operated at a more difficult time than you are operating, but they added value. I don’t believe that anybody is absolutely useless. Everything operates in a time and space. It’s a leardership problem. Democracy is growing. We are building a nation undoubtedly, but we must recognize everybody’s contributions.